After a recent release of NetBSD 9.0 ( https://www.netbsd.org/releases/formal-9/NetBSD-9.0.html ) what does community members' wishlist for NetBSD 10.0 -try to be more specific of possible :)

- support for running cross-endian binaries on bi-endian architectures like MIPS and PowerPC - XFS driver? even read-only would be nice - stability / usability fixes for macppc - machfb driver fixes to prevent hang on boot - CHRP script to allow boot on new-world systems without needing OF prompt - stability / usability fixes for sgimips - seemingly random kernel panics when under heavy load with newport graphics enabled - would be great to have a driver for the indy VINO graphics capture (its very well documented) - port to gamecube/wii - evbarm port to i.mx6 / sabrelite ... i *might* personally be researching / writing code for literally all of these

Better Atheros WiFi support Keep zfs and dtrace up to date Vscode in pkgsrc Switch to openrc Ungoogled chromium and iridium Arduino support Better risc-v support

* boot+root on zfs * base system as a bunch of packages for easier updates (someone is/was working on this...) * import Ed Schouten's cloudabi patchset * more ARM64 SoCs (jmcneill@ has been absolutely phenomenal at this).

Easy: Better cross-compiling infrastructure for packages AMD64 -> Armv7, Armv8 FreeBSD has poudriere/jails/qemu. John Marino (before he was kicked out) developed gnatcross-aarch64 to do it better (so I think it's probably a dport on DragonflyBSD). I know he was working on NetBSD, so I'm surprised he didn't continue this. NetBSD? Kludge.

I only own x86_64 hardware, but I'm happy to see that the OS lives up to the moto _"Of course it runs NetBSD"_ and is introducing new platforms to the already extensive list :) Honestly, and unlike what others have written, my hard drives are small and CoW file systems are of no use to me. Sorry, but I don't really care about `zfs` and if its introduced, I do hope the possibility to run `FFSv2` is kept, its good enough to me. I do hope to see increasing support for wireless cards and new hardware. Being on pair with Linux-4.4 series is very good already, keep-up the excellent work!! The work already done on virtualization is awesome 🥳 , `nvmm` and `haxm` are great additions and allow those who want/need to run another OS for those, natively unsupported tasks. In all, I'm very happy with NetBSD already. It would be nice to convince Google to compile a version of `widevine` for BSD. I would then be able to convert a few family machines, currently running on Ubuntu base, to NetBSD. They want their Netflix 🤔 Personally, I'd like to see a clean-up of the `pkgsrc` tree. There're loads of packages, where the upstream project is either abandoned or dead. That's a lot of resources being used to patch and maintain software, that could be otherwise pulling/packaging more useful things. But, that's probably just me, as I'm a minimalist but also a modernist ;) Along similar lines, a base system clean-up would be nice, e.g. why `twm` and `ctwm` in base? I know they are small, but a wm should be a users choice and one is more than enough. A similar thought goes for the number of shells in base and few other unnecessary things. I always remove `/games` and `ctwm` and I keep away from `linux-emul`. Again, no big deal, just a thought. One thing, though... More and more things are done on a web-browser, so maybe time to think about how to keep the browser up-to-date. I'm happy running `firefox`, but it would be nice to have it updated in between Q-releases. I know, I can build it from `pkgsrc-current`, but I'd like to stick to **one** release.

Port of recent AMDGPU driver to NetBSD and try to keep it updated, that would be a dream.

> @"[unknown]"#p887 It would be nice to convince Google to compile a version of widevine for BSD. I would then be able to convert a few family machines, currently running on Ubuntu base, to NetBSD. They want their Netflix In my opinion: without an NDA to sign this is unlikely to happen, as far as I can assume from briefly looking into widevine. even getting them to acknowledge your existence seems hard.

@"[deleted]"#p889 Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. Its all in the hands of google and not on the hands of the OS. I just think it sucks. Netflix uses FreeBSD and even contributes back to it, but FreeBSD users can not watch Netflix because it uses google's `widevine` 👿 The only reason it works on Linux, if you're using the standard `glibC`, which I don't, my Linux machine runs on `musl`, is because it **has to work on ChromeOS** The choice of OS should have **nothing to do with it**. Unfortunately, it does 😢

**fcambus** provided his wishlist items for 10.0: 1) signed packages 2) easy installation on encrypted root 3) LLVM built by default on amd64/i386 4) Spleen by default for framebuffer consoles ;)

- Lima drivers for mali4xx gpus and newer amdgpu version. - Default PKG_PATH set to correct versions and architecture. - Easier install process. Maybe dialog that tells you "Reboot or open shell in installed system" at the end of installation?

Wishlist for NetBSD 10.0

qik

Jay With some luck we might get GNOME 🙂

Jay

qik just saw this few time ago:

https://youtu.be/VEhwzYRcP8A

https://wip.pkgsrc.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=pkgsrc-wip.git;a=commit;h=fff62d806f45e51c4b4a5eb735235821b463d2dc

Congratulations for porting 😄

qik

Thanks Jay It's only a start, I hope I can keep it up

One thing I want for 10.0 is Pinebook Pro hardware support. I want to switch to NetBSD on mine, but I was hesitating because I read the WiFi driver is not reliable.
Jails or containers a la Docker would be nice.

Jay

qik check out NVMM and Haxm qemu as emulators.. I am not sure if docker coming to BSDs anytime soon 😅

Sam

qik Docker would be nice

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Docker on NetBSD would be a great feature, especially for who is running workloads in Kubernetes.
NetBSD is so streamlined that it greatly fits both as a container OS and as a worker node in a distributed configuration.
I'd be happy to ditch Alpine-based containers for their NetBSD-based counterparts.
It could also help reducing the dependency on Linux from an ISV point of view, and make alternative OSes shine in the same workloads.
From a developer point of view it would be amazing to be able to use NetBSD to run also Linux-powered containers with the binary compatibility from the kernel.

That said, my real wish for NetBSD 10 is use it without worrying of the RIRB timeout errors that break the boot on my T440 with NetBSD 9. 😢

qik

Jay Yeap, I will try virtualization for now. But one can hope. I hear chroot is quite good on NetBSD. Plus there are security options like "Curtain mode". So, maybe not Docker specifically, but an alternative might pe possible 🙂
Btw, I found this intriguing: https://imil.net/blog/posts/2020/fakecracker-netbsd-as-a-function-based-microvm/

Jay 🥶 😱

wlfaws

Hello everyone

I've been on NetBSD for a few months, but first I just have reason to praise NetBSD, but specifically I'm using the OS108 developed by @Jay. But what I would like in the new version, would be better compatibility with NTFS partitions. Because I can't write data to hard drives with an NTFS partition, I can only read data from an external disk and copy it to my computer. But if I try to copy data from my computer to an external hard drive with an NTFS partition from the error. I tried to use FuseNTFS but I was also unsuccessful.

NOTE: My previous distribution was Fedora 30, which I updated for many years until migrating to OS108.

Thank you very much

Good that this thread got a new post in it, that brought it back to the top of the list.
Had nearly forgotten it and I do actually have a wish for the 10 release.

Maybe weird asking this but, its over my head to even attempt packaging this monster...
I'd like to have qt5-qtwebengine!

nia

I'm at the point where my wishlist is the same as releng's https://wiki.netbsd.org/releng/netbsd-10/

doug213

wishlist for 10?
strip everything down to bare bones.. make it as minimalistic as possible.. stop trying to make linux out of it.. make it the most unix os in spirit, something like slackware used to be back in the day.. toss zfs, virtualization and what not to the trash where it belongs.. hey thats my wishlist 😁

doug213 toss zfs, virtualization and what not to the trash where it belongs..

I'd have to agree with zfs... but, virtualization can be handy.

Sam

doug213 well, aren’t you wishing for OpenBSD? Well, yes it still has VMM, but it’s mostly the OS you’re describing.

That said, if you want a minimalistic installation of NetBSD without all its bells and whistles, you can always:

disable what you don’t need in mk.conf;
build a minimal kernel.

nia

"Make NetBSD much less usable so it can be like a Linux distribution that's already 10x its size, by removing things that have been in that same Linux distribution for decades"

nia Not sure I understood you?
But, I would actually remove the whole linux-emulation layer and put it in an optional installation set.
Personally, I don't want it.

nia

No, doug213's idiotic comment about making NetBSD like Slackware by removing things like virtualization.

compat_linux is a module and it won't be autoloaded any more - some people wanted it out of default kernel configs due to some bugs. I actually use it, personally. nvmm and zfs are also modules that don't get autoloaded and are missing from default kernel configs, funnily enough... you can just delete the module files if you believe they're somehow polluting your pure minimalist system.

doug213

forest from the trees...

rvp

Low-hanging fruit, this, surely: Remove Xorg from base install; use instead, modular Xorg from packages.

Xorg in base is pretty old (1.20.5, built March 2019); xterm is very old (330--circa 2017); other binaries in /usr/X11R7/bin are similar.

Right now there's no way to skip base Xorg and only install modular-xorg instead. I tried it a few months ago and I got a ton of bizarre dependency issues (Xlib, fontconfig, ...)

You can install modular-xorg into /usr/pkg/bin with base Xorg, but then you have duplicates: libraries and binaries both (/usr/X11R7/{bin,lib} vs. /usr/pkg/{bin,lib}). And, therefore have to juggle PATHs to select between the two (and also, the related problem of the order of entries in /etc/ld.so.conf).

rvp Remove Xorg from base install; use instead, modular Xorg from packages.

Xorg in base is pretty old...

I'd rather have base xorg updated, I kind of like the fact that's part of base.

rvp

pin I'd rather have base xorg updated

That was part of what prompted my post. With modular-xorg, the X bits might get updated at least quarterly--like it is now. The other, major, part is getting rid of the confusion of having 2 sets of X installs. Have one or the other, not both. I myself am using the base Xorg.

X separate from base also makes possible an under 512MB mini image.

20-100

It's difficult to understand why there are sets in base plus the modular-xorg package, particularly with modular-xorg requiring base to work... :
modular-xorg looks like an unfinished work and its inclusion in pkgsrc like a mistake.
So yes, updating the xorg sets seems the best way to go.

yeti

20-100 >10 years ago I had modular xorg on all systems without the x-sets being installed. I just stopped to use it that way because compiling every package from (pkg)src was a bit too gentoo-ish for my taste. Retrying that may be a nice experiment on long winter nights. (SANTAAAA!!! Hear me! Winter now!!!)
If enough users want packages for this configuration, mayhaps we can set up something...

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