FreeBSD install driver in userspace

joe2321

If I used Trident, is it possible to install drivers (for example wifi drivers) in the userspace rather than the kernel space as if I am not mistaken FreeBSD uses a hybrid kernel rather than a monolithik kernel like GNU/linux does?

joe2321 Have no idea about FreeBSD, but is the kernel really hybrid? I could swear its monolithic...
You could run NetBSD and have those drivers as loadable kernel modules. Or you could actually run SculptOS, it uses a microkernel, FreeBSD's libC and NetBSD's rump kernel to manage processes in user space. Its still experimental and not all functionality has been implemented. Although, I took it for a spin some 6 months ago and you can actually do somethings with it. Its a very interesting concept.

joe2321

pin Have no idea about FreeBSD, but is the kernel really hybrid?

I am so sorry yes it is monolithik, but DragonFlyBSD is hybrid so I thought FreeBSD would have been the same thing.

Ok so I could run NetBSD as it also contains rump kernel where drivers can run on userspace.

pin Or you could actually run SculptOS, it uses a microkernel, FreeBSD's libC and NetBSD's rump kernel to manage processes in user space. Its still experimental and not all functionality has been implemented. Although, I took it for a spin some 6 months ago and you can actually do somethings with it. Its a very interesting concept.

That is a pretty interesting operating system I may want to install this after it is released as stable.

pin You could run NetBSD and have those drivers as loadable kernel modules.

I would probably then stick with NetBSD. Does it come with binary blobs?

joe2321 Don't know, sorry 🙁

joe2321

pin Don't know, sorry 🙁

All good 🙂

Does it come with a live CD by any chance?

joe2321 Depends what you mean with "live"...
Yes, its kind off live but, there's no GUI, no graphic installer or a pre-installed desktop. Thanks for that!! 🙂 I hate to install a system just to rip all the desktop packages away and than install my choosed ones.
I only use window managers, Awesomewm on Void featuring musl libC and spectrwm on NetBSD. So, I always start with a base-install without a GUI.
You could try OS108 that uses MATE, but the installation is still non-graphical.

joe2321

pin Depends what you mean with "live"...

Like live use, something that most GNU/Linux distros offer.

pin Yes, its kind off live but, there's no GUI, no graphic installer or a pre-installed desktop. Thanks for that!! 🙂 I hate to install a system just to rip all the desktop packages away and than install my choosed ones.

I see, you are basically an Arch Linux type guy 😉

pin Awesomewm on Void featuring musl libC and spectrwm on NetBSD.

Do you like KDE by any chance?

pin You could try OS108 that uses MATE, but the installation is still non-graphical.

Looks very interesting. I would probably give this a try. I would still replace MATE with KDE.

joe2321 Do you like KDE by any chance?

Nope! Xfce is the only DE that I would consider using. Moreover, all my systems are Qt-free. But, to everyone its own, there's nothing wrong with different tastes 😉
Anyway, you might like this if you want KDE.

joe2321 I see, you are basically an Arch Linux type guy

Well, that depends. I've never used Arch... it comes with systemd 😉
I rather use Void!

joe2321

pin Nope! Xfce is the only DE that I would consider using.

KDE is also pretty light weight after their somewhat recent update. Plus it has more features.

pin Moreover, all my systems are Qt-free

What does Qt mean exactly?

pin Anyway, you might like this if you want KDE.

Thanks, is this compatible with NetBSD and/or OS108?

pin Well, that depends. I've never used Arch... it comes with systemd 😉

How come many ppeople hate it, I don't really know what problems does it cause that is why I want to know/

pin I rather use Void!

There is also parabola OS (which is based on Arch) and they have OpenRC edition as well.

joe2321 Answering in order:
-Honestly, I just prefer tiling WMs. My desktop usually looks like this...

-KDE uses mainly Qt applications, although you can obviously use Gtk apps as well.

-Don't know if the article I've linked is possible on NetBSD. Haven't tried to be honest. It should work, but you'd need to build plasma from pkgsrc wip (work-in-progress) locally on your machine. Replacing MATE on OS108 doesn't make much sense to be honest, better to start from vanilla NetBSD.

-Ahh! systemd... honestly, my knowledge is not enough to assess systemd. But, an init system should do just that and not all the s**t systemd does. systemd starts services as per default, I don't like this either.

-I prefer runit to OpenRC, so I stay with Void 🙂
Otherwise, I'd rather use Alpine anyway, but thx!

joe2321

pin -Honestly, I just prefer tiling WMs. My desktop usually looks like this...

Looks nice. I heard it is very shortcut based, is this true?

pin -KDE uses mainly Qt applications, although you can obviously use Gtk apps as well.

I see.

pin -Don't know if the article I've linked is possible on NetBSD. Haven't tried to be honest. It should work, but you'd need to build plasma from pkgsrc wip (work-in-progress) locally on your machine.

I thought NetBSD is already POSIX compliant though?

pin Replacing MATE on OS108 doesn't make much sense to be honest, better to start from vanilla NetBSD.

Yeah true you are right about that. But I guess I want to use a system with GUI enabled to make it easier to just locate files and stuff.

pin -Ahh! systemd... honestly, my knowledge is not enough to assess systemd. But, an init system should do just that and not all the s**t systemd does. systemd starts services as per default, I don't like this either.

I see.

pin -I prefer runit to OpenRC, so I stay with Void 🙂

Why is runint better?

pin Otherwise, I'd rather use Alpine anyway, but thx!

You';re welcome 🙂

joe2321 I heard it is very shortcut based, is this true?

Yes, I don't own a mouse 😃 and the trackpad is only needed within firefox.
As my first WM was awesome, I've changed all the default bindings of spectrWM so I didn't have to learn new ones 😉
Here, my keybindings, MOD is Mod4, also known as the Windows Key. I have a few more bindings defined in the main config file

joe2321 But I guess I want to use a system with GUI enabled to make it easier to just locate files and stuff.

I guess you have misunderstood me... I have a GUI, installation is done without one. spectrWM is just the window manager. I also have a browser, a file manager, a text editor, a word processor, a video player, ...

joe2321 I thought NetBSD is already POSIX compliant though?

It is, but plasma 5.16 is wip. It means you won't be able to install it with pkgin. You have to build it from source. Read chapter 3 from the pkgsrc guide to set it up. Enable wip and build and install the package as per instructions. Although, as its wip (work-in-progress) you won't know how it works until you try it 😉

joe2321 Why is runit better?

I just like it better 😉

joe2321

pin Yes, I don't own a mouse 😃

Damn how do you survive without a mouse?

pin As my first WM was awesome, I've changed all the default bindings of spectrWM so I didn't have to learn new ones 😉
Here, my keybindings, MOD is Mod4, also known as the Windows Key. I have a few more bindings defined in the main config file

Is it easier to use all this compared to Windows? Is it possible to configure all of this on KDE as well in terms of keyboard shortcuts?

pin I guess you have misunderstood me... I have a GUI, installation is done without one.

Oh sorry man.

pin spectrWM is just the window manager. I also have a browser, a file manager, a text editor, a word processor, a video player, ...

I see I could just stick with NetBSD.

pin It is, but plasma 5.16 is wip. It means you won't be able to install it with pkgin. You have to build it from source. Read chapter 3 from the pkgsrc guide to set it up. Enable wip and build and install the package as per instructions. Although, as its wip (work-in-progress) you won't know how it works until you try it 😉

Thanks will give this a try 🙂

pin I just like it better 😉

Oh I see 😉

One question have you heard of Redox OS by any chance? Would you use it if it was released as stable?

One thing, are you concerned about computer privacy? Do you know anything about Intel ME by any chance?

joe2321 Damn how do you survive without a mouse?

Believe me, its easier than you think. Take a few keybindings at the time and in one week you'll know them all.

joe2321 Is it easier to use all this compared to Windows?

Hmm! Not sure what you mean? I still use the "other" keybindings, things like Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+A,...
For example, if I want to copy some text from a web page and paste it into a new file in abiword, the moves would be
Mod4+m (launch firefox), Mod4+a (launch abiword), Mod4+j (shift back to firefox)
Go to the page I want to copy from and select the text to be copied.
Ctrl+C, Mod4+j (shift back to abiword), Ctrl+V, Ctrl+Shift+s and finally Mod4+Shift+c (close the file)

Its really fast 😉

joe2321 Is it possible to configure all of this on KDE as well in terms of keyboard shortcuts?

I would think so. Its possible on Xfce, just be careful so you don't have a keybinding that calls more then one action!!

joe2321 I see I could just stick with NetBSD.

You might have seen my little guide 🙂

I've tried RedoxOS on a virtual machine already 😃
Yes, I could use it. But, currently it doesn't install on bare metal 🙁

joe2321 One thing, are you concerned about computer privacy? Do you know anything about Intel ME by any chance?

Yes and no! Yes, I'm concerned. But, I'm not obsessed by it, I still want to use my laptop 🙂
There's a post in the forum about Intel microcode on NetBSD by @JuvenalUrbino, look for it in the main page.

Now...
Trying to convert you into tiling 😆

Have a good week-end!

joe2321

pin Believe me, its easier than you think. Take a few keybindings at the time and in one week you'll know them all.

Oh yeah, it is like using Blender modelling softwar, it is very heavy on focusing shortcuts.

pin Hmm! Not sure what you mean?

I mean like using Windows DE vs the system that you have set up, which one would be easier?

pin Its really fast 😉

Damn lucky you you gotta teach me this 😉

pin I would think so. Its possible on Xfce, just be careful so you don't have a keybinding that calls more then one action!!

Thanks I will try and set it up to make my workflow a lot easier.

pin You might have seen my little guide 🙂

Thanks I will have a look at it once when I do proceed to install NetBSD 🙂

pin Yes and no! Yes, I'm concerned. But, I'm not obsessed by it, I still want to use my laptop 🙂

Same here but it is really pissing me off how Intel and AMD could both be potentially spying on you. Technology is so horrible these days.

pin I've tried RedoxOS on a virtual machine already 😃

Nice, how was it? Would you replace it over NetBSD if it was released as stable?

pin Yes, I could use it. But, currently it doesn't install on bare metal 🙁

Yeah it is pre-alpha, can't blame the developers.

pin There's a post in the forum about Intel microcode on NetBSD by @JuvenalUrbino, look for it in the main page.

But this doesn't address the ME issue :/

pin Now...
Trying to convert you into tiling 😆

Lol.

pin

Looks pretty nice I am going to give this a try one day 🙂

pin Have a good week-end!

You too mate =D

joe2321 But this doesn't address the ME issue :/

My bad, I was thinking of microcode 🙁
Intel ME sucks. Everyone is spying on you these days, and making money of it 😠

joe2321

pin My bad, I was thinking of microcode 🙁

All good 🙂

pin Intel ME sucks. Everyone is spying on you these days, and making money of it 😠

Exactly, I can't believe that even hardware manufactures push bullshit spying features into the CPUs. Both AMD and Intel are doing this. I know that with AMD you can disable this. But how do you know if it is actually disabled and not pretending to be disabled as PSP (the equivalent to ME) as it is running on proprietary code. I think living in the 80s and 90s would have been more interesting since you could own a computer and not worry about it spying on you. These days it feels like you can't own anything.

I like how Purism did some weird stuff to isolate ME in their laptops. So it still runs but it can't do anything by force.

See if you attempt to just destroy the ME component. after 30 minutes the CPU is programmed to shutdown. Why? I feel like they are paid from the government to spy on users.

I want to ask you something in terms of computers. So with AMD graphics cards, unfortunately you need binary blobs in order for the graphics cards to work. So my understanding with binary blobs is that a kernel loads the driver and the drivers then push the binary blobs into the graphics card and then the graphics card uses the blob to perform whatever function it wants to and interacts with the driver. Does the binary blob running on the graphics card have the potential to invade your privacy if you know by any chance?

One other question is that is there proof that you can trust AMD CPU's PSP from actually being disabled when the user disables it from the BIOS settings?

joe2321 Does the binary blob running on the graphics card have the potential to invade your privacy if you know by any chance?

Sorry mate 🙁 ...Can't really answer that.

joe2321 I feel like they are paid from the government to spy on users.

Maybe...

joe2321 These days it feels like you can't own anything

The price to pay for "free" services? Your privacy 😉

joe2321

pin Sorry mate 🙁 ...Can't really answer that.

All good 🙂

pin Maybe...

Thanks for the link I may want to experiment with a crappy CPU lying around.

pin The price to pay for "free" services? Your privacy 😉

Lol so true though. But I mean even at a hardware level its even worse cause first of all you are paying them to be spyed upon and second of all it invades your privacy even more.